Talktalk spam filters not working

[LiffJon]

Hi, I am concerned that talktalk's spam filters are not working correctly. We have two users (husband and wife) on our talktalk account, and over the last three days, numerous emails from one to the other have not been received at all. This is really concerning as we use email for all our business/written communication with each other. 

They are not in the spam folder

Neither of us has the other listed as blocked user

I have checked both email addresses on verifalia.com and there are no reported problems. 

Recently both of us have been spammed from 

@mx.tt.xion.oxcs.net

a spam domain which has spoofed both our email addresses so that the spam email appears to originate with us (it doesn't). 

We use TypeApp for android devices (as well as Talktalk webmail on pc), and have noticed that TypeApp's spam blocker incorrectly identifies our (genuine) email addresses as the sender and blocks us, instead of blocking the actual sender @mx.tt.xion.oxcs.net. 

Is it possible that Talktalk spam filters are doing the same thing, and identifying our genuine email addresses as spam senders? 

If not, where have our emails gone?

[Michelle-TalkTalk]

Morning,

I'm sorry for the delay. I'll ask my colleague for an update on this.

Thanks

Michelle

[LiffJon]

Hi Ady, have you heard anything yet?

[Ady-TalkTalk]

No word back yet. 

Ady

[LiffJon]

thanks

[Ady-TalkTalk]

I've run 7 day scans on your mailbox for sending and receiving and still seeing no traffic. I've asked the mail team if the can see anything.

Ady

[LiffJon]

Hi Ady, no just the same. I just did some tests, and it is as before:

J--- send to L--- using TypeApp on Android - message appears in J's Sent folder - nothing received by L---, no bounceback message

Ditto using Thunderbird on Windows 11 - no message received.

Ditto in reverse L--- to J--- using TypeApp on Android - no message received

Messages OK in both directions using Webmail. 

[Ady-TalkTalk]

Hi Liffjon, is this working normally today?

Ady

[Gondola]

Okey dokey...let us know what the Case Manager says.

[LiffJon]

Update as of today - spoke with talktalk support on the phone, and send two test emails from email clients to talktalk, which were not received. Nor was the expected automated response received by myself. So the problem has gone to a case manager for further investigation.

[LiffJon]

Hi Gondola, Thank-you.

Your summary of the problem is correct. 

I also did a self-send test from my gmail to my talktalk account and vice versa:

gmail to talktalk: silently rejected - message in the sent folder - no bounceback message

talktalk to gmail: received OK

I have updated the personal information in the community profile as you requested and included the following summary in private notes: 

As of 3rd May 2024: Emails are being silently rejected when sent by email clients (currently TypeApp and K-9 on Android and Thunderbird on Windows 11)
Sending address j****@talktalk.net and L*******@talktalk.net
Recipient address j****@talktalk.net and L*********@talktalk.net
Sent emails are showing up correctly in "Sent" folders, but are not being received. There is no bounceback error message.
We have had extensive support from Gondola on Talktalk community to narrow down the problem but unable to solve it so far: see https://community.talktalk.co.uk/t5/Email/Talktalk-spam-filters-not-working/m-p/3039022/thread-id/17... 

[Gondola]

If two email clients fail then there has to be a common root cause.

The single mail message and single recipient is sent without error from first one then the other email client and the two sent emails go into the Sent folder of the account you're sending from. You can also confirm the two sent messages appear in the Sent folder of the online mailbox seen by signing in to TalkTalk Mail webmail.

But neither of those two sent messages appear in the Inbox or Spam folder of the TalkTalk Mail account you're sending to and there's no bounceback delivery error message. In webmail there's no indicator of any new unread messages in the mailbox?

So, if all of that is as I've assumed, and outlined above, we have to conclude that inbound mail is being silently rejected.  I'll ask TalkTalk Support to check the recipient email address to see if it's blocking your sending email address. This will happen from Tuesday onwards as there's no TalkTalk staff helping us here on Community over the Bank Holiday weekend.

For TalkTalk Support include in your Community Profile, Personal Information (here):

• Your name, current home 'phone number. An alternative (mobile preferred) contact number.
  Full address with postcode (Location)
• Scroll down to Private notes to add the sending email address and the faulty recipient email address, notes and references etc
• After checking and updating, Save changes

[LiffJon]

Hi, thanks for all your help. 

Both passwords have been changed. TypeApp reinstalled on both devices.

Webmail send works OK. 

TyepApp (on Android) fails - though the message appears in the Sent folder, nothing is received. 

(I have deleted Windows Live Mail and installed Thunderbird to replace it.)

Test message from Thunderbird (on Windows 11) also fails, though again the message appears in the Sent folder.  

[Gondola]

In relation to the TalkTalk Mail accounts.

• Is sending direct from one to the other working using the webmail sign in? Single email address as recipient, no other address in CC or BCC and not sending via any third party or VPN service?

If so we can move on to finding out why TypeApp is not sending. Remove both accounts from TypeApp and set up afresh as IMAP email accounts using the new password relevant to each account. Should set up automatically using just the email address and password.

[LiffJon]

OK, thanks for that. I will stop using Windows Live Mail. (Pity, as it has better archiving and especially searching tools than anything else I have found.) I don't think, however, that using WLM was the cause of the emails disappearing!

[Gondola]

Two points to comment on.

1. Windows Live Mail is not supported by TalkTalk Mail because it is inherently insecure. If you use that product you risk your security and TalkTalk will restrict your mail usage to webmail only.
2. The change of password was so that you did not use any email clients and just concentrated on use of TalkTalk Mail webmail only. Use the upgraded password with the webmail sign in but do not change the password for email clients so that they are locked out and do not connect to the mailbox. Especially do not update the password for Windows Live Mail. Just retire that product and do not use it.

[LiffJon]

Hi thanks Gondola, 

Multiple sends is not the issue at the moment, though thanks for the alert. 

I have tried the solutions you suggested in the last message but one - changing password seemed to work, but then further test messages didn't go through, once more. 

What seems to be consistent now is that sending from one of our accounts to the other on webmail is working: but sending from email clients is not working. So, sending (including self-sending) from TypeApp on android is a fail, as is sending (and self-sending) from Windows Live Mail on a laptop. In both cases the send appears to work (emails appear in the Sent folder) - but nothing comes in to the inbox. Email from other people seem to be arriving OK. 

[Gondola]

Just a further follow up from me. I believe there is an issue with the TalkTalk Mail SMTP outgoing mail servers having issues delivering mail when sending to multiple email addresses are required.  Mail may not be delivered. 

So, for now, when testing send just to single email addresses only as that seems to work ok.

If you happen to get a TT603 Stop on sending then that's just a temporary hold for an hour and I think is being triggered by the root cause of failing to send to multiple email addresses.

[Gondola]

For each of the sends did the sent message go without error and get copied into the Sent folder?  Did you wait for the mailbox to refresh? The default refresh time is 5 minutes.

If the sent messages all got copied into the respective Sent folder then that does suggest there's not an issue sending mail. Having made sure there are no Rules defined for both mailboxes then there should be nothing stopping mail from arriving in the other online Inbox.

If there are still issues then just to make sure there's not an issue with other email software or mail collection services it would be good to upgrade the passwords for each mailbox and just carry out further checks using the TalkTalk Mail webmail sign in. NB An Internet browser will support just one sign in at a time. If testing on one device then use different browsers (e.g. Chrome and Firefox for example) to sign in, one to one mailbox and the other to the other mailbox. 

[LiffJon]

Hi Gondola, thank-you very much. 

Our talktalk domains are both @talktalk.net

I have tried the self-sends (both email addresses) and they both work. 

I have checked the message rules - and deleted two, which I think must have been generated automatically. One was "Block message senders - disabled" and one was something about Gmail - (also disabled). There are now no message rules. 

Since then I have tried a resend of JM to LG and have had mixed results - one has come through and one has not. 

There is nothing relevant in Spam or Trash.

This seems to match the pattern of the last three days (12 messages sent JM to LG, and three delivered). Nothing in spam. 

[Gondola]

What are your TalkTalk email domains - just the part of your email addresses after the @ symbol?

Have you both checked that you have no Rules defined in your online mailbox?

Select here:  Sign in to TalkTalk Mail

Enter your TalkTalk email address and email password, select Sign in.

Check the  Inbox first and then check  Spam and  Trash folders for mail messages that may have been diverted from the Inbox. Bear in mind the spam and trash folders normally contain mail not older than 30 days.

Select the New email button, or pencil icon if using a mobile browser, to compose and self-send the same mailbox a mail message. Check that the message sends without error, is copied into the Sent folder and arrives and stays in the Inbox. Hopefully you will be able to send from yourself to yourself to prove there's no block in place.

Mail not reaching the Inbox could mean there's a Filter rule, including an Auto forward which is a special filter rule, that's diverting, discarding or blocking mail.

• Select the Main settings menu cog icon      top right on the blue header
• Select All settings, or if using a mobile browser it's Menu then the cog icon for Settings
• Select Mail and scroll down to Rules
  Select the chevron icon > to see all defined Rules
  If there's no rule defined, that's perfect
• To delete a Filter rule including any Auto forward
  select the X icon to the right of the rule
  The icon background will turn red  X
  
• To confirm you really want to delete this Filter rule
  Select the blue Delete button